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I believe that my budget proposal needs no additional defense. We will just have to see who's is voted for. As for new laws I vote on and propose the following:Inspector Detector posted:I would also like to call a vote on creating a secular education system run by the government for all children and removing the involvement of the Catholic Church in current schooling. If they wish to run private schools they may, but those schools shall be accredited by the government. I vote in favor In addition I propose a new law that grants peasants the rights of tenure. No one should be evicted from their land except for failure to work it and even then they must be given the due process of law. I vote in favor Finally I propose that the state grant legal recognition to the workers' militias on the condition that militia members serve on a voluntary basis and admission is open to all regardless of union or political party affiliation. As far as possible these militias should aid the police and civil guard in maintaining order, and their officers shall be admitted into our military acadamies. I vote in favor
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Dec 21, 2011 11:42
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Diplomaticus posted:His Excellency is unfortunately wrong. Corruption is a problem that must be fought by loyal men, especially if that corruption is found within the judiciary and police forces. It is not a secret police, but rather an anti-corruption brigade. Does His Excellency wish to allow corrupt officials to continue in office? Certainly, he would not fear such an investigation of his own staff, no, given that they control an immense amount of money? I, Alvaro de Albornoz, do hereby protest this baseless, slanderous, suggestion that there is corruption in the judiciary. This disrespect for the highest courts of our land shall not be tolerated. Clearly, this is a prelude to a complete breakdown in social order. Anarchy if you will. For if the people hear our officials claiming there is no justice, why then should they follow the law? Cut the budget for this unnecessary implement of anarchy or so called secret police in it's entirety say I. I being Alvaro de Albornoz. The Minister of Justice votes in favor of the Budget proposed by Marcelino Domingo
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Dec 21, 2011 11:49
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Francisco Franco Regarding the so called "workers militia" proposal, I'd like to point out that it's very difficult to both pass a law that more individuals be admitted to the military academies while at the same time cutting the budget for those academies. One is reminded of the Hebrew slaves in Egypt who were expected to make bricks without straw.
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Dec 21, 2011 11:58
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Manuel Azaña, Prime Minister I will not vote for a budget that impulsively puts the cart before the horse. At this rate, why not just tax the rich at 100% for a year and spend infinity credits on the budget while replacing the police and military with peasant militias? I am at a loss for words if you cannot understand why this is too much too soon. Spain is in a delicate situation and this budget is reckless.
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Dec 21, 2011 15:06
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Marcelino Domingo, Minister of Agriculture, Trade, and Industry My budget spends only 1 more credit than yours, the difference is that I put it to building the economy instead of more guns and police batons. You are on the record as supporting an increased police force to "maintain order," but how often did we hear that under the monarchy? Will you now go on record as opposing the right of workers to defend themselves from criminality? How much easier will it be to catch criminals when the whole of society is organized against them? As things stand the first blow against political unrest will come from a revitalized economy. The second will come from the entrance of every Spaniard into the Republic's work. National defense and the fight against lawlessness are the duty of every Spaniard.
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Dec 21, 2011 15:40
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Francisco Largo Caballero quote:Marcelino Domingo, Minister of Agriculture, Trade, and Industry I vote in favour Although I agree partly with the Prime Ministers assessment, this budget is necessary to kick start our economy and provide hope to the people. When Spain is reaping the rewards of such early investments, we shall all look back and agree that this was the right decision. quote:I would also like to call a vote on creating a secular education system run by the government for all children and removing the involvement of the Catholic Church in current schooling. If they wish to run private schools they may, but those schools shall be accredited by the government. I vote in favour quote:In addition I propose a new law that grants peasants the rights of tenure. No one should be evicted from their land except for failure to work it and even then they must be given the due process of law. I vote against This is an unnecessary proposal. Everything said is already enshrined in law and our powerful labour unions. quote:Finally I propose that the state grant legal recognition to the workers' militias on the condition that militia members serve on a voluntary basis and admission is open to all regardless of union or political party affiliation. As far as possible these militias should aid the police and civil guard in maintaining order, and their officers shall be admitted into our military academias. I vote against Though a valid end goal, this is much to fast. We need to organise and restructure ourselves first. If proposed later I will likely agree, but our utopia must first have a solid foundation. At this time I would also like to official propose the national labour pool as discussed and outlined by José María Gil-Robles and myself. A government run organisation who's purpose is to organise and direct voluntary, unemployed labour in the pursuit of providing relief work for the unemployed, while also efficiently using their valuable labour in the pursuit of government mandated projects. This will hopefully provide the unemployed enough of a wage until the jobs promised by Marcelino Domingo's budget appear. I vote in favour
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Dec 21, 2011 15:57
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It's a bit after 11 PM and I don't have everyone's orders. It's possible you're only planning on doing things publicly this season, which is fine, but let me know if you can. I plan on processing the turn tonight, but I'm going to give people a little more time.
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Dec 21, 2011 20:50
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Department of Justice Vows to Put an End to Political Violence, Corruption "People of Spain. Our cities blossom with freedom of thought and philosophy. The people, too long burdened by an incompetent monarch, are struggling to express themselves. But brutish thugs, employed by those who cannot bear the thought of political diversity, attempt daily to silence the opposition. No more. The Department of Justice is cracking down on political violence. Those who stifle freedom of expression, or affect to alter polls through the use of force can expect to serve hard time. No man should be afraid to express an opinion in this modern Spain. But it is not just the thug on the street who we must deal with. No, the fat, greedy, slobs who line their pockets with the wages of the people must be dealt swift justice. Corruption runs rampant and must be put to a stop. We are launching full scale investigations into where the missing tax pesetas go! We urge you all to cooperate fully in these investigations and to aid the Ministry of Justice in putting a stop to corruption and political violence! It has no place in our free republic! Viva Espana!"
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Dec 21, 2011 21:03
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I'll claim the position of Alejandro Lerroux, leader of the Radical Republican Party. You can PM me, talk to me on IRC, or email me at ktakanago@gmail.com
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Dec 21, 2011 23:50
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NEXT TURN IS DUE FRIDAY, DECEMBER 23, AT 11 PM LEGISLATIVE NEWS On the budget: The Parliament is offered two budget proposals, a more moderate suggestion advanced by Prime Minister Azaña and the more radical budget suggested by Marcelino Domingo. The votes are close, with Domingo's proposal being popular amongst the left and Azaña's being much more acceptable to the right. Much of the Cabinet throws their support behind Domingo's proposal, and the President's approval is enough to coax some of the more moderate republicans. Marcelino Domingo's budget passes narrowly. There is some grumbling on the left that suggests Prime Minister Azaña is more interested in compromise with the conservatives, military, and police than on true reform. On creating a secular education system run by the government for all children and removing the involvement of the Catholic Church in current schooling: With widespread support amongst the Cabinet, as well as almost all parties of Parliament with the exception of the rightists, this passes by a wide margin. Catholic priests and bishops speak out against this usurpation by the government, bothering the more religious citizens of Spain. On granting peasants the rights of tenure: While Domingo's fervor is appreciated, the constitution basically guarantees this right already and the Parliament finds it unnecessary to restate it. Some of the more radical socialists use this opportunity to call out for true land reform and collectivization of agriculture. On granting legal recognition to the workers' militias on the condition that militia members serve on a voluntary basis and admission is open to all regardless of union or political party affiliation: With a major union leader like Francisco Largo Caballero speaking out against this proposal, as well as distrust for workers' militias amongst the Republican left, this fails. However, a few of the more radical workers leave the Caballero's union in anger for what they consider a betrayal of the cause. The CNT-FAI sees a small rise in membership. On the national labour pool, a government run organisation who's purpose is to organise and direct voluntary, unemployed labour in the pursuit of providing relief work for the unemployed, while also efficiently using their valuable labour in the pursuit of government mandated projects: With support from the left and surprisingly the leader of the conservative coalition, this proposal passes. Over the next six months, unemployment does see a considerable drop. Labor leaders complain, however, that this program undermines and weakens local unions. DOMESTIC NEWS Though the Prime Minister's budget explicitly did not fund it, the passage of Domingo's bill allows Police Chief Mola to create the Fuerza Especial de Investigación. Their proposed intent is to root out threats to the state. General Serrano of the air force conducts a number of flight drills. Spanish pilots grow more experienced. However, the decrease to the military budget forces drills to be cut short. General Franco calms dissent in the military after receiving word of the budget cuts. He is successful at relieving the fears of many of the conservative officers. He also engages in a program to discuss military tactics with other European countries, though all but France refuse. A few discussions are held with France regarding military strategy. As the military accepts some painful cuts, General Franco ensures the African army remains strong. Jose Maria Gil-Robles, leader of Acción Nacional tours the country unveiling his political manifesto. He argues for new elections to utilize the universal suffrage that was not available to the people, particularly women, in the 1931 elections. He details his support of the public works plan, supports Catholic values, and proposes a motto of "Peace, Stability, and Order." He focuses on recruitment among the wealthy as well as devoted Catholics, two groups which feel persecuted by the current government's policies of high taxes and secular schooling. Marcelino Domingo focuses government support for industry on the areas of consumer goods and modernizing agriculture. The former is effective but the latter encounters resistance from the aristocracy. He also begins meeting with groups of workers and farmers in local areas to hold discussions regarding local development. He also builds support for his party among the peasantry. Toribio Echevarría Ibarbia writes a number of articles urging the passage of the bill regarding citizen's militias. Once it fails, his newspapers spends time castigating the politicians and leaders on the left who fought against it. This is partly what leads to workers leaving the UGT. He also publishes a number of articles spreading distrust about Director Mola's special police force possible usage for political repression, and many city leaders take heed. Alvaro de Albornoz focuses on ending political violence in the cities. Unfortunately, widespread and increasing misgivings about the political agenda of the police force means conflict is common. Political violence is reduced, but leftist groups decry what is happening as censorship. Albornoz also investigates a number of influential local politicians and businessmen. In many places this reduces corruption, but in Seville the local leader of the UGT claims that he is being persecuted for his political beliefs. Meanwhile, the Justice department insists that he is engaging in graft and bribery of politicians. The UGT holds an anti-police strike in Seville. In rural areas, local aristocrats try to use the government worker program to gain Republic-subsidized farmhands. Albornoz's focus on corruption eliminates this in areas close to cities, but it becomes widespread elsewhere. Jose Sanjurjo begins training the Civil Guard to operate more effectively in the cities. He works in tandem with the police and the justice department. The considerable budget given to the police force aids in this and the Civil Guard are rapidly becoming an urban force as well as better equipped. Strikers in Seville use joint operations between the Civil Guard and Police to show political collusion. They wave copies of El Socialista claiming it shows the truth about the police. FOREIGN NEWS An explosion on a Japanese-owned railroad line in Republican China results in the invasion of Manchuria. The League of Nations attempts to end the conflict but fails. quote:
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Dec 22, 2011 00:59
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SlothBear posted:Department of Justice Vows to Put an End to Political Violence, Corruption El Director notes that His Excellency the Minister of Justice will of course need the support of the police in order to combat this corruption. El Director pledges the full cooperation of the FIE in this task, and has directed the FIE chief to work with the Ministry of Justice to create a permanent liaison position for this investigation. El Director points out that despite contradictory statements by His Excellency the Minister of Justice as to the existence of corruption, the Policia remain absolutely committed to combatting this disease to the moral fabric of our society. Furthermore, El Director notes that corruption often stems from rich men in the cities abusing the rights of the hard-working peasantry in the rural areas. This will not stand! Therefore, should La Guardia Civil accept, El Director proposes a training program in which police officers may spend one month's time training with La Guardia Civil in the rural areas, to remind them of the difficulties faced by our rural colleagues. Similarly, we would welcome the rural security forces to send their officers for one month with La Policia Nacional, to become more familiar with urban corruption. In this manner our police and security forces will become more professional and better disposed to identifying corruption wherever it may be found. Funding for this program will come from our recently increased budget; however it ought not to require much money and can be tested first with a small number of officers.
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Dec 22, 2011 01:09
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Francisco Largo Caballero It seems that the spirit of my proposal has been misinterpreted; instead of everyone benefiting from work, everyone has been bought lower by the loss of wages. To prevent further exploitation of the workers and the national labour pool, I propose the establishment of a minimum living wage for our nation's workers, one that ensures they can be protected from exploitation and labour racketeering. I vote in favour To further stimulate growth I also propose the establishment of a nationalised banking system, who's purpose would be to reinvest in Spanish industries, shoring up our economy with public investment and to provide loans to our poorest citizens, giving them the same credit opportunities as our wealthier citizens. The nationalised system would also allow the government a greater ability to regulate the banks actions, which should help us prevent further crashes in the economy. I vote in favour I also propose a land reform policy, where unused arable land is bought by the government and then resold, at a highly reduced price, to citizens and citizens collectives. The new land owners will then receive agrarian subsidies for the first 2 years, which will tide them over for their first harvests. Any new farms created by this land reform will also receive preferential treatment from the labour pool, to help new farmers in their first years. I vote in favour Now, if anyone needs me, I shall be in Seville with my brothers and sisters.
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Dec 22, 2011 02:06
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OscarDiggs posted:Francisco Largo Caballero El Director notes that such a plan would be open to rampant corruption, in which wealthy industrial owners would become rich at the expense of poor citizens trusting in the banks; while the bankers would become little tyrants, directing investment flows at will to their chosen favorites. It would be a system of graft and would only benefit the rich. El Director votes against. quote:I also propose a land reform policy, where unused arable land is bought by the government and then resold, at a highly reduced price, to citizens and citizens collectives. The new land owners will then receive agrarian subsidies for the first 2 years, which will tide them over for their first harvests. Any new farms created by this land reform will also receive preferential treatment from the labour pool, to help new farmers in their first years. El Director believes that such a plan is risky, as rich landowners will attempt to keep their land at the expense of state security. El Director also finds it likely that greedy swindlers will attempt to "buy up" large tracts of land udner the guise of "citizens collectives", creating a new aristocracy and destabilizing the political landscape. El Director votes against.
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Dec 22, 2011 03:27
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Francisco Largo Caballeroquote:El Director notes that such a plan would be open to rampant corruption, in which wealthy industrial owners would become rich at the expense of poor citizens trusting in the banks; while the bankers would become little tyrants, directing investment flows at will to their chosen favorites. It would be a system of graft and would only benefit the rich. I would note that this would be a nationalised bank, controlled by the state. Bankers as you describe, would not excist in this system. The state controls would ensure the investment flows to what is needed. I would also say, that the function of this bank would most likely deny loans to already entrenched industrialists, serving only starting industries in this regard. quote:El Director believes that such a plan is risky, as rich landowners will attempt to keep their land at the expense of state security. El Director also finds it likely that greedy swindlers will attempt to "buy up" large tracts of land udner the guise of "citizens collectives", creating a new aristocracy and destabilizing the political landscape. Your concern here however, is not unjustified. Such systems could be exploited by the less ethical members of our nation. Instead of throwing out the idea wholesale, perhaps El Director could provide advice on how best to safe guard this system, and any future systems like it.
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Dec 22, 2011 03:46
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El Presidente would like to remind El Director that, as he is not a member of the Council of Ministers, he does not have a vote. His input is, of course, welcome, however.
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Dec 22, 2011 07:10
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El Director thanks El Presidente for the reminder, and has fired the spokesperson who made such a silly mistake.
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Dec 22, 2011 07:15
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OscarDiggs posted:Francisco Largo Caballero El Director is not an economist, unfortunately. Perhaps one of the minsteries could have to certify that the purchasers are indeed new farmers? And supplemented by restrictions on the sale of these lands (say, for several years after purchase) without government approval? And purchases would need to be done individually, rather than as a collective. In the short term, this would cause some fragmentation, but it would ensure that the lands do grow in value, and -- when sold -- would be sold at full price and without subsidies. Or, perhaps subsidies could be in the form of an agrarian loan, which must be paid back to the state before the land can be sold. Limitations along these lines ensure that the farmers reap their benefits and will have a greater bargaining position several years down the line when they are able to sell. If collectives want to purchase the land later, they will have to do so as equal bargaining partners, not as dominants. Unethical elements looking for easy gains would have to look elsewhere, but legitimate businessmen looking for long term investment in this country would not be hurt.
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Dec 22, 2011 07:26
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Toribio Echevarría Ibarbia excerpts from various articles printed in late 1931 and early 1932 "...and while I have yet to resign my own membership in the UGT, in the hopes that Francisco Largo Caballero can yet be made to see reason, I support those who have chosen to lead with their hearts! I call upon Largo to support the citizen militia proposal in the new session of Parliament and make amends for his misplaced attempts to placate the statists who seek to control us, or be revealed as that most detestable of creatures - socialist in name only!" "...though some may doubt, it cannot be denied that General Franco is doing quite well with what he has; the military is our sword and our shield, and will protect the Workers from those who would exploit us from afar! A more egalitarian system of officer candidacy is required in order to ensure that revanchists and monarchists do not come to too great a degree of power in the military, but military leadership thus far seems committed to..." "...support the calls for a new series of elections, and if they are held, let it be known that I intend to run for a seat in the Partido Socialista Obrero Español..." "...find the reports of this Fuerza Especial de Investigación eminently disturbing. Our government officials seem to have forgotten that they are in service to the people, not set above the people; this is a Worker's Republic, not a means by which the formerly powerless can become new aristocrats! We did not go through the formation of the Republic to simply trade in one set of Masters for another! Let none work with these swine, let none inform to them; let them be a symbol of the government's mistakes, and by refusing them, show that we will refuse to be treated as 'potential threats' to the government that was installed on OUR BACKS!"
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Dec 22, 2011 07:49
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 Alejandro Lerroux Radical Republican Party I find it a bit worrisome that the ruling coalition seems to rushing through reform, instead of restraining themselves. While you are no doubt riding the high of success from the last election, you should keep in mind that not everybody agrees with what you think is the right thing to do. Our country needs to move forward with unity, and do things that we all agree upon. If we don't, then I worry that we will tear our beloved country apart. We should not make our future decisions by force of the vote, but with compromise and agreement. On specific topics: The proposal of a minimum wage has good intentions, but I worry about how it would affect the economy in reality. Let's remember that unemployment is high and we've just started to make progress in reducing it. We should not spoil that by forcing businesses to pay more for each and every worker. While I agree that workers should be paid enough to live on, we can't just make more money appear out of thin air. Instituting a minimum wage right now would cause people who have jobs right now to be thrown out onto the street. While the idea of a minimum living wage is admirable, I don't believe that now, with 17% unemployment, is the right time to implement it. I don't have a problem with the idea of a national bank, as long as it is carefully kept in check. The bank should not drive other banks out of business, it should not give out loans so generously that it collapses, and so on. Not that this a very major concern, but it should be stated that the bank should not get out of control. Just as long as it runs normally, like other banks, it should be fine. In regards to land reform, let us keep in mind that it is a very political, polarizing topic and can quite easily get out of control. The best possible way to cause a national cesspool of political bickering and anger is to implement land reform poorly. On top of that, it would be an expensive thing to implement. The costs of fully compensating landowners, and providing subsidies for new farms, would be quite large. Since our budget is right, if we proceed with land reform we must do it slowly, and with restraint. We must walk before we can run, and we must crawl before we can walk. In the realm of land reform, we must be very careful, or we will have a mess.
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Dec 22, 2011 09:12
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The Ministry of Justice denies rumors that it has been using Seville as the target while it throws darts at a map of Spain.Diplomaticus posted:El Director notes that His Excellency the Minister of Justice will of course need the support of the police in order to combat this corruption. El Director pledges the full cooperation of the FIE in this task, and has directed the FIE chief to work with the Ministry of Justice to create a permanent liaison position for this investigation. El Director points out that despite contradictory statements by His Excellency the Minister of Justice as to the existence of corruption, the Policia remain absolutely committed to combatting this disease to the moral fabric of our society. I, Alvaro do Albornoz, do hereby accept with jubilation the support of the fine men and women of the ... (people who do the leg work, whatever they call themselves these days I can't keep track) FIE. That's it, FIE! And the Ministry of Justice only denies that there is corruption with the judiciary. Within the petty tyrants of minor despotisms, like that landfill called Seville, there is corruption aplenty. quote:It seems that the spirit of my proposal has been misinterpreted; instead of everyone benefiting from work, everyone has been bought lower by the loss of wages. To prevent further exploitation of the workers and the national labour pool, I propose the establishment of a minimum living wage for our nation's workers, one that ensures they can be protected from exploitation and labour racketeering. It seems that this will do nothing but ensure that they do not have a job at all, or allow those who are able to buy off corrupt politicians, like those nepotistic bastards in Seville, able to skirt the system while eliminating their competition. I vote against quote:To further stimulate growth I also propose the establishment of a nationalised banking system, who's purpose would be to reinvest in Spanish industries, shoring up our economy with public investment and to provide loans to our poorest citizens, giving them the same credit opportunities as our wealthier citizens. The nationalised system would also allow the government a greater ability to regulate the banks actions, which should help us prevent further crashes in the economy. A nationalised bank? We do not have a sufficient surplus to fund this sort of venture. Our finance minister seems to be asleep at his desk. This is premature. We should return to this when our country is more stable. For now, I vote against quote:I also propose a land reform policy, where unused arable land is bought by the government and then resold, at a highly reduced price, to citizens and citizens collectives. The new land owners will then receive agrarian subsidies for the first 2 years, which will tide them over for their first harvests. Any new farms created by this land reform will also receive preferential treatment from the labour pool, to help new farmers in their first years. We do not have the funds to do this. The cost would be astronomical and it will do nobody any good to have land if it they do not have public safety, transportation and education for their children. Fund this and we will all end up as morally and financially bankrupt as those jerks in Seville. I vote against The department of justice calls upon the UGT in Seville to cease its hostile actions against law enforcement or face charges of treason. Covering up for public corruption is the worst sort of good old boys club that our modern nation has no call for.
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Dec 22, 2011 12:08
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Toribio Echevarría Ibarbia From an editorial piece that is printed in several national and regional newspapers, including those that are not traditionally 'left-leaning' (though none of the truly right-wing publications will carry it). Handbills bearing a similar message are distributed freely. There has been much talk of the speed with which reforms should be made in the Second Republic, or indeed, if they should be made at all. I am but one voice of those calling for reforms, and will not pretend to speak for all that share my zeal, but still I feel it important to express our views in an open forum - for without dialogue, not just among ministers and government officials but among the people themselves, how will Spain survive? My name is Toribio Echevarría Ibarbia. I participated actively in the creation of the People's House of Aida and helped form the Alfa cooperative in 1920, the first modern industrial cooperative in the country, and was honored when the cooperative's workers chose me to be their manager. I say this not to glorify myself, but to establish my bona fides so that perhaps those on the right will understand that I understand the things of which I write. The establishment of the Second Spanish Republic was a watershed moment in the history of our proud nation. After General Rivera's resignation the dictablanda of Berenguer lost the support of the people, and it is by the will of the people that we achieved our new Constitution and our new government. There are those who will say that we are changing too rapidly, and I wish to address their concerns. You see, the people swept our present government into power not to halt change but to bring change. Our government was not elected to maintain the same failed policies that Berenguer could not fulfill, they were not elected to be more of the same! Change was needed, and cried out for, and that change is as inevitable as the tide of history. I say this, and it frightens some of you who read it. It will perhaps shock some people when I say that I understand that fear. Change is a terrifying event; every one of us knew fear to some degree as we changed from children to adults, and that is a comparatively minor change compared to what lies in store not just for us as individuals but for our nation. But change is coming, fear or no fear. We cannot stop it. But we can guide it. It must be understood that the people, the poorest among us, are terrified as well - not that change will come too quickly, but that it will not come at all. They see our new Parliament and our new Constitution and our new Republic and these things bring them hope, but hope brings with it its own set of fears - the fear that hope may not be enough. The fear that our new government will, in the name of expediency and political needs and an attempt to make everyone happy, fail to deliver the change that they so hope for... that they so need. They have been told, time and again, "Your lives will improve. We will make things better." And time and again they have been disappointed. Can they be blamed for a degree of cynicism? Can they be blamed for impatience? Can they be blamed for their fears? Of course not. There are those in government who would blame them, however. Who would tell them to wait, who would tell them to stand down, who would even view them, not as the good and just and honest Spanish citizens we know them to be, but as obstacles. Perhaps it is a yearning for the monarchy; perhaps it is simple greed; perhaps - and I believe this to be true of most - it is simply a lack of understanding of the depths of emotion and need that the people have, for longer than any of us have been alive, felt. Ah, but this is still ominous-sounding, is it not? "Echevarría," I hear you saying even now, "you sound like you are warning of a revolution!" Nothing could be further from the truth. That is fear speaking - yours, theirs, even mine. I explain these things, not so that you will fear the people, but so that you will understand them... and in the hopes that understanding will bring us all a little closer together. For while the people demand change, and rightly so, the people are not unreasoning, unthinking beasts. The people are Spanish, just as you are, just as I am. We must come together as Spaniards. Instead of saying to the people that they must wait for change, instead work with them, to find change that you and they will be able to live with. For change is coming, but as I said... that change can be steered, can be guided. Do not fear it. Embrace it. "But with whom shall we work?" you may ask, and I shall tell you - Francisco Largo Caballero is far more amenable to compromise than you may have been led to believe. Indeed, he is more amenable to compromise than I would sometimes wish, and we have had something of a spat about it only recently! But he is at heart a good man, and for all that we may disagree I yet trust him. You have been told to fear the "radical left," but consider that those who inflame your fears are those with the most to gain from a return to the old ways - the ones who have exploited and oppressed their countrymen. Consider that the exploit4ed have risen to power, and consider that it will take all of us working together to ensure that they do not become the new exploiters. Consider that change is coming. Change is here. And consider that whether we fear change or not, change will still come. But if we put aside our fear, we may yet create a world that is the better for it. We are Spaniards. Since when have Spaniards given in to fear?
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Dec 22, 2011 12:16
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General José Sanjurjo El Leon del Rif makes a national radio broadcast aimed at a wide swath of the people. In the interest of the people I accept El Director's proposal of joint training for our respective police forces. Giving our police and guardsmen experience in both rural and urban policing exposes them to the plight of our people in both the cities and the farmlands. We are the servants of the people and we must be exposed to the livelihoods of all!! We will continue to work with the Police and his excellency the Minister of Justice to make the streets of our cities safer. For too long the urban denizens of Spain have had to live in fear of leaving their homes at night. The Civil Guard and the Police continue to work at fighting the violence and corruption that plague our fledgling Republic. We are spread thin, our brave officers and patrolmen overworked trying to put out the fires of social discord. We need more funds, more recruits, and the continued support of the Ministry of Justice and the people of Spain! For too long gangs of party thugs have roamed our streets, intimidating the common citizen to further their agendas. Giving these so called "militias" legal enforcement powers is tantamount to letting a wolf herd the flock. I fought and bled por my pais, por mi gente!! Not so that these political parties can have their own private armies to terrorize the populace. We need to maintain an independent police force and civil guard that respect civil rights. We need an independent judiciary and trials for the accused. Will you receive a fair trial when the party thugs come armed into your home? Will your civil rights be respected when they drag you away for speaking against them? Make no mistake those who slander the Police and the Civil Guard would have you believe we are oppressing the people. But we have and continue to observe the legal rights of all citizens. La Guardia Civil has a record of success. Look at how safe the rural areas are. Think back to the stories of your grandparents. Memories of a time when brigands and bandits held reign over the roads. Travelling in Navarre with a few coins in your pocket was practically a death sentence! We have brought peace to the countryside and with our new cooperation with the Police and his excellency the Minister of Justice we shall bring peace to the cities! As for land reform, I claim not to be an expert but a mere observer. I have seen tracts of land go unused. Instead of purchasing this land, which will most likely be handed over in title to those who curry the most favor with politicians, let us partially subsidize leases for the small farmers. The name on the lease is theirs and theirs alone. The land will truly be used by the people instead of a brother or uncle or friend of the politicians in power. My brothers and sisters we need your support. With your help and additional funds from our government we can make Spain safe for all! Viva Espana!!
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Dec 22, 2011 12:25
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Marcelino Domingo In regards to Señor Caballero's proposals I have the following to say. Proposal for a Minimum Wage: I vote in favor Proposal for a National Bank: I vote in favor Proposal for the Productive use of Arable Land: I vote in favor Further I make the following proposals: The Fight Against Government Corruption Act The Records of All Government Agencies and Departments shall be open to the public except when that would threaten ongoing investigations or national defense. Under those circumstances the records will only be made available to the Cortes Generales for review. I vote in favor This should greatly aid the work of the Ministry of Justice in rooting out corruption. The Fight Against Financial Corruption Act The Accounts of all businesses shall be open to the public, without exception. I vote in favor Finally I would like to warn the aristocrats who apparently thought my push for agricultural modernization was a suggestion. Our constitution subordinates the right to property to the public good. While people are going hungry the need for modernization would justify my use of agricultural funds to nationalize, with compensation, any latifundia that cling to backwards technique.
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Dec 22, 2011 12:53
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Alejandro Lerroux Radical Republican Party quote:The Fight Against Government Corruption Act This is a reasonable proposal... quote:The Fight Against Financial Corruption Act ...but this is not. There is a major difference between these two acts: the first is the government choosing to release information, the second is the government forcing others to release private records. Furthermore, the lack of any kind of protection or exception of any kind is terrifying. The financial records of private businesses should stay private. If there is reason to suspect that a financial crime is taking place, let an investigation into the records happen then. But we don't need to pre-emptively search through the records of all businesses, big and small. It is a violation of privacy and a waste of our time. Sr. Domingo, I understand that you wish to eradicate financial corruption, but you need to be reasonable and respectful of what is and isn't everybody's business.
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Dec 22, 2011 13:15
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Francisco Largo Caballero It seems many people have had misgivings about my policies, which is understandable giving the current climate. I will try to address some of the problems my fellows have. For my minimum wage proposal, many are worried about stymieing the recent improvement of our unemployment levels, however I feel that many are ignoring the fact that wage levels are decreasing. The National Labour Pool was supposed to help the unemployed by giving them temporary relief work, so that they have some type of wage, as well as shepherding them to permanent work if avaliable. But it has had the unexpected effect of decreasing wages of unskilled workers. I am not suggesting a minimum wage far off what we have now, I was suggesting taking the national average we have NOW and freezing it as a minimum wage to ensure wages do not depress further. Any more wage decreases and we will be facing a disaster as people starve on the streets unable to afford the already expensive food. The national bank was suggested to make better use of the investment budget we currently have in place. It's whole purpose is to stimulate additional growth while it is allowed, while also opening up the possibility of social mobility by giving cheaper loans to our poorer citizens. I understand if some people can see this as premature or unaffordable, but investment now will produce tangible benefits later. My land reform proposal seems to be the most degenerated, but I welcome any possible improvements my fellows could suggest. Food is hard to come by, food prices fluctuate wildly and there are many acres of unused land, waiting to be tapped to further benefit our nation. Perhaps my suggestion is to fast to soon, but if we do not have a fast solution soon, there will be starvation on our streets and in our towns. As always, I welcome any criticism and possible improvements my fellows can suggest. Unfortunately only General José Sanjurjo has made a possible alternate solution for land reform at this moment, which I thank him for. Please remember that I am a socialist, through and through. Some my degenerate me as not radical enough, some can accuse me of selling out ideals, but no one can accuse me of not being a socialist. I would never willingly hand over additional power to those already owning it. Nevertheless, I will strive to ensure my future proposals include appropriate checks and balances within their opening statement even though they would be included in the later product. I hope everyone will give their opinions on ways to improve my proposals, or suggest their own superior ones. As a final, more personal statement; Dear Minister of Justice, unless you are also accusing me of being a traitor, you are frightfully misinformed about the nature of the laws you serve. I am here, with my brothers and sisters, holding my placard high in solidarity. You can be assured that while I am here, this strike will not go beyond the limits enshrined by our laws and constitution. If the leader of the local head is indeed guilty of corruption, which my own investigation should uncover, be assured that the evidence will be handed to the police so that he may spend his time in prison for the crimes he committed. If however he is innocent, I will expect a letter, hand written, from both you and Emilio Mola, with suggestions on how you will both reduce the bigotry and discrimination rampart in the police. The UGT is not a scared child, baulking and crying at the slightest threat; The strike here today is legitimate, it is protected by law and it will continue until the discrimination ends. Have no fear that the guilty will be punished. Furthermore; Marcelino Domingo, I thank you for your support, but it may be slightly premature. I intend to rewrite my proposals, in an attempt to redress some of the issues our fellows have with them. I will however, welcome your support for the re-written proposals. As for your own, quote:The Fight Against Government Corruption Act I vote in favour quote:The Fight Against Financial Corruption Act Alejandro Lerroux has a legitimate point about privacy. I would suggest that all accounts be open to scrutiny by government controlled accountants, to be released to the public after a 10 year period. The private woes and misfortunes, which can ignite the capitalist class, will stay hidden, the privacy of the businesses will stay largely intact (as long as the investigations occur anonymously until a crime is suspected), but the government will have a watchful eye on them, taking an active role in corruption prevention. I shall await a response before voting.
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Dec 22, 2011 13:47
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OscarDiggs posted:Francisco Largo Caballero El Director notes that Sr. Caballero seems to have overlooked his alternate proposal for land reform.
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Dec 22, 2011 14:00
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Francisco Largo Caballero I humbly apologise El Director. Recent events had me so inflamed I forgot myself. I hope this slight will not prevent you from providing additional criticism and advice in future. I retract my previous legislative proposals, in favour of these new ones, which will hopefully incorporate the advice and criticism levelled against my previous suggestions. The Temporary Wage Protection Act Firstly, I propose a temporary wage freeze for unskilled labourers, to ensure that the decreasing rate of unemployment will not depress the wages of those currently in, or seeking work. The freeze suggested will incorporate the national average for unskilled work, as of now. Wages for the unskilled may not go below this level. Hopefully this new wording will make my intent clearer. I don't intend to make labour unaffordable, after all, if it can be afforded now, it should be affordable in future. This act is solely to protect wages from depressing any further. The Nationalised Banking, Loans and Investment Act This act will establish a semi-autonomous bank, controlled and regulated by the government. It's purpose will be to firstly, provide a additional competitor to the current bank market, giving the people more choice. Secondly, to ensure the existence of low interest, long term loans for the poorer members of our society, for the strict purpose of allowing more social mobility and giving the poorest strata the chance to form their own businesses. Thirdly, to invest government cash in businesses, providing additional capital and safeguarding weaker businesses for their first years while our economy recovers. Invested businesses will be part nationalised. Bankers will be waged, and will not receive revenue or bonuses for their work. Capital gained from investment will only be used, as an additional revenue source for the government or for reinvestment and loans. The bank will count as a government branch, so it will be accountable to the The Fight Against Government Corruption Act. Hopefully these news safeguards will convince it's detractors that the bank will not fall for the rampart corruption currently infesting our inner cities. The Land Nationalisation Act As my land reform act was the most hated, it has undergone the most change and relabelling. In this form, towns and villages already relying on agriculture will come to own the surrounding land. Any private land will be bought up and given to the agricultural settlements, as a form of loan, which the town will then pay for through the profit they gain through farming. Only land within a range will be controlled by the town. This way, the majority of private land remains private, their will be little cost to the government, as the towns and villages will be paying for the land over time, agriculture becomes part nationalised in these areas, allowing the government a direct hand in land collectivisation and modernisation and government subsidies will provide some control over the crops grown, hopefully making food crops more available. It also has the benefit of uplifting our poorest rural workers, giving them a direct stake in their future. As you can see, I have harshly reduced the scope of the land reform, while addressing most of the problems my detractors had. Hopefully, this will be the first step in further land reform, although I understand if it remains a touchy subject. If there are still problems, I will withdraw the act for a later time. As always, problems and improvements are always welcome. I hope that, if you do have a problem with anything here, you provide some suggestions on possible improvements. I will save voting until others have had a say, and I will withdraw any truly destested acts.
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Dec 22, 2011 14:44
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Canasta_Nasty posted:Further I make the following proposals: I vote in favor. Transparency is the key to fighting corruption. Corruption is the serpent coiled about our nation, it must be crushed. When the people see that their tax dollars being honestly spent they will be happier to contribute them. quote:The Fight Against Financial Corruption Act I vote against and I concur with Senor Lerroux. The government already has the power to investigate wrong doing by private business. Their records are, essentially, already open to us if we need them to be. All this will accomplish is forcing private citizens to no longer to be private among each other. quote:The Temporary Wage Protection Act I vote against. This is not something our government has the time or resources to be concerned with. Let us provide work and safety for our people first, then quibble over the details of it once more than 1 out of every 6 of us no longer earns no wage that can be protected. quote:The Nationalised Banking, Loans and Investment Act I vote against. This is a half measure. Neither capitalist nor socialist and in the way of becoming either. It is not the bold new direction our country needs, and we do not have the funds to start handing out loans to the massive numbers of our country who are unemployed. quote:The Land Nationalisation Act This is intriguing. I wish to hear more from the party leaders on how they believe it will affect their constituents, and from Finance about how much it will cost in the short term. I withhold a vote for now.
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Dec 22, 2011 16:09
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OscarDiggs posted:Dear Minister of Justice, unless you are also accusing me of being a traitor, you are frightfully misinformed about the nature of the laws you serve. I am here, with my brothers and sisters, holding my placard high in solidarity. You can be assured that while I am here, this strike will not go beyond the limits enshrined by our laws and constitution. Your "lawful" protest is a smokescreen to prevent an honest investigation into your stooge in Seville. You seek to prevent access to the records and offer your own investigation as a replacement? This will never be acceptable to the Ministry of Justice, or to a free Spain. You subvert the loyalty of your party for personal gain. You threaten riots and violence to discourage an open and honest government. You do more against Spain than any foreign enemy could. This is treason. Step down, hand over every record that you clutch to yourself, and cease instigating the people against the law. If you have not already destroyed all evidence of your lackey's crimes, your political grandstanding may be forgiven. If you have obstructed our investigation and destroyed evidence you will share a seat in the prison next to the corrupt officials. Make no mistake. We will not make a cause of those you have tricked into aiding you. The people on the street will not be arrested or harassed simply for protesting and striking. You, on the other hand, I do not think you have the stomach for martyrdom. Stand down, or face justice.
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Dec 22, 2011 16:23
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Jose Maria Gil-Robles I would like to draw attention to the success of the labour pool scheme, and request its' continuation and expansion. Already over 100,000 Spaniards have been found employment, 100,000 families no longer struggle to put food on the table. I find the situation in Seville worrying. If a union leader can halt an investigation in to his own corruption through the threat of strikes then he places himself above the law. If this were an unjust conviction then he should petition the judiciary in the proper way to reverse such a conviction, but it is not. Noone should be able to place themselves above the law. After discussion, I propose that the land reform scheme is unnecessary, expensive and potentially destabilising. Although the aims are noble (securing food supply for the country) I would like to point out we are a net exporter of food, and the problems of starvation are due to unemployment and instability in regions. The way to tackle this problem is to increase employment and decrease banditry in the countryside, where stability is a problem. The Civil Guard is the ideal instrument for this, and perhaps an increase in funding could help bring order to these remote communities. The Bank of Spain is already a national bank under control of the state. Perhaps the existing framework could be used to implement similar loan schemes, without the grand cost and possible corruption of setting up a new, identical institution.
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Dec 22, 2011 16:32
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Francisco Largo Caballero The fact you have to rely on threats to make your point known just shows the weakness of your own arguments. What have you to fear of a concurrent investigation? Why are you so against a second, additional investigation, in addition to the one conducted by the police? You are clutching at straws to make yourself feel better. The investigation has not halted, no obstruction has occurred. All that has happened is the people have made themselves known, and they have said they will not stand for your bullying or the bullying of the police. I am tired of your posturing and your paranoia. If you fear me so much, I will not carry out my own investigation and I will even give you access to head office, where the main files are kept. I hope your not to afraid of dark closets and filing cabinets on top of everything else Minister.
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Dec 22, 2011 17:22
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Marcelino DomingoOscarDiggs posted:Francisco Largo Caballero Sadly you've introduced a new ambiguity into your proposal. We do not wish for a wage freeze, which would prevent raises, but to set the minimum wage at the current standard. Right? Francisco Largo Caballero posted:The Land Nationalisation Act I actually significantly prefer this version to your prior proposal. The one change I would like to make is that small farmers be allowed to refuse to sell their lands if they so wish. They will of course miss out on the subsidies, so I imagine not many will choose that path. The collectivization of the small farmers should be their choice when they see the improvements. To address the minister of Justice's concerns, I imagine that the money for this move will come from the substantial budget of my Agricultural Ministry. We may have to implement the law piecemeal if there are not enough funds, but it is a good start. Finally I would like to address the criticisms of The Fight Against Financial Corruption Act. I believe Señores Lerroux, Albornoz, and Caballero are mistaken when they say this act will impinge upon privacy, as it does not apply to private persons. It applies to businesses which are social entities. Society as a whole is involved in putting money into these businesses in investments and purchases, and it is involved in taking it back out through wages and expenses. Society as a whole has the right to know what happens to the money while it is in the business, because that flow of money affects society as a whole. In order to ease the seasick stomachs of my fellow-ministers though, I will amend the Act to the following. Amended Fight Against Financial Corruption Act: Any business employing over 25 people or making over 10 million pesetas in revenue must make their accounts available to the public.
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Dec 22, 2011 19:59
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Alejandro Lerroux Radical Republican Party Unfortunately, Sr. Domingo, your revision does not solve the underlying problem. This isn't just a matter of scale; your proposal is inherently flawed. I must strictly disagree with your idea that private businesses aren't private. Businesses should not be forced to disclose their financial records to the general public. It does not matter whether nor not they have more than twenty-five employees.
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Dec 22, 2011 20:13
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Marcelino Domingo Radical Socialist Republican Party There are many good reasons why we split from your party Sr. Lerroux, your inability to understand the social nature of modern production is just one of them.
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Dec 22, 2011 20:49
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The last couple posts have done it, and I'm guilty of not doing it, but can we all start including our Party/Ministry/Branch titles in addition to our names, at the beginning of posts? I'm terrible at associating fictional LP names to forums names, and having to keep track of parties/ministries on top of that...
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Dec 22, 2011 22:57
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Francisco Largo Caballero Minister Of Labour quote:Sadly you've introduced a new ambiguity into your proposal. We do not wish for a wage freeze, which would prevent raises, but to set the minimum wage at the current standard. Right? The freeze will only prevent wages from going below the current national average we have now. Wage raises wont be affected, the freeze acts as a compromise between those who say we can't afford a minimum wage, and the fact wages are depressing. Perhaps freeze was the wrong word but I had no intention of affecting higher wages, only preventing them from reducing below a specific point. quote:I actually significantly prefer this version to your prior proposal. The one change I would like to make is that small farmers be allowed to refuse to sell their lands if they so wish. They will of course miss out on the subsidies, so I imagine not many will choose that path. The collectivization of the small farmers should be their choice when they see the improvements. Funnily enough, several people have talked about this issue, and I am in full agreement. I shall amend the act to say only unused land will be affected in this way. Private farms will have the choice of selling their land if they so wish. quote:Amended Fight Against Financial Corruption Act: Although more reasonable, the amended act still seems to have detractors. We should speak in private about possible improvements that could be made.
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Dec 23, 2011 03:29
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Alejandro Lerroux Radical Republican Party OscarDiggs posted:Francisco Largo Caballero If you present a draft with these changes, I will be happy to endorse it.
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Dec 23, 2011 10:25
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Manuel Azaña Prime Minister and Minister of War Republican Action quote:The Temporary Wage Protection Act I vote in favor. quote:The Nationalised Banking, Loans and Investment Act I vote in favor. quote:The Land Nationalisation Act I vote in favor pending the revised version. quote:The Fight Against Government Corruption Act I vote in favor. quote:The Fight Against Financial Corruption Act I vote against. This seems to be going too far, and the cutoff of when a business must provide their records publicly seems arbitrary. Small businesses can employ more than 25 people after all, and I feel like this creates more hurdles for our struggling economy. As far as the current budget goes, I must remind my fellow MPs that this budget is currently unsustainable, especially as we have not seen an increase in revenue. I would like to put forth for discussion the possibility of a loan from one of our allies to ease the tax burden on our people and speed up our economic development.
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Dec 23, 2011 11:28
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Francisco Largo Caballero Minister Of Labour I hear by propose the, The Re-amended Land Nationalisation Act This act will have the same functions as The Amended Land Nationalisation Act with the stipulation that privately owned land, already used for agricultural purposes will not be nationalised unless the owners willingly sell the land to the state. I vote in favour I hope this new stipulation will garner your support Sr Alejandro and Sr Marcelino. As well as re propose, The Temporary Wage Protection Act I propose a temporary wage floor for unskilled labourers, to ensure that the decreasing rate of unemployment will not depress the wages of those currently in, or seeking work. The wage floor suggested will incorporate the national average for unskilled work, as of now. Wages for the unskilled may not go below this floor. I vote in favour Hopefully the change in language will prevent further semantic issues Sr Marcelino. The Nationalised Banking, Loans and Investment Act I vote in favour
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Dec 23, 2011 11:35
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Alejandro Lerroux Radical Republican Party quote:The Re-amended Land Nationalisation Act I vote in favor, and thank the Minister of Labour for his willingness to fix and amend the land reform proposal so much. quote:The Temporary Wage Protection Act I vote in favor. As long as this remains temporary, and is undone when it becomes problematic or unnecessary, I do not have a problem with this. quote:The Nationalised Banking, Loans and Investment Act I vote against. I am concerned with the "part nationalizing" of businesses that we would be giving loans to. I worry that this may both trap vulnerable new businesses in a web of red tape, and give the government a big potential mess on our hands. People who aren't able to secure affordable loans at private banks are, frankly, at a significantly higher risk of defaulting or going out of business than the average. While giving affordable loans is good in principle, the combination of strictly low-interest loans and government management of new businesses makes this too much of a risk and liability for my tastes. As much as I like the idea of affordable loans, we may just end up with a bunch of government-owned failed businesses on our hands in a few years. quote:The Fight Against Government Corruption Act I vote in favor. quote:The Amended Fight Against Financial Corruption Act I vote against. As I stated before, the finances of private businesses are not something that the public at large needs to know about. It does not matter whether or not the business has more than twenty-five employees.
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Dec 23, 2011 11:56
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