Hey folks. I am interested in the numbers of supernats that exist in the now-Judged World of Darkness, since all the info that is ever going to come out has come out. This was started in the beginning of October 2006, so all numbers are based on approximately 6.5 billion human beings existing on the planet.

The following is a result of a massive commitment on my part to gathering numbers and opinions from people in Shadow n Essence, ex Libris Nocturnis, as well as other random internet scourings. Of course, I use canonical text first and foremost.

When there is no canon information, I have compiled people's personal opinions on percentages and merged them together to get an average breakdown, to reflect as many people's thoughts as possible. I only tweak the numbers from there if I need to make them relate to other gathered data (most notably adjusting Worldwide Kindred populations to reflect forumites' Sect make-up opinions).

THIS IS THE LIST. IF YOU DONT LIKE IT, LET ME KNOW TO ENACT "CHANGINGS". FEEL FREE TO ALTER WHEN USING FOR YOUR OWN CHRONICLE. THIS IS A GUIDELINE.

KEY: Canonically Verified, Logically Extrapolated, Reasonably Estimated, Arbitrarily Speculated, Tentatively Inserted

I. HUMANS- 6.5 billion (% of world total)
---A. Asia*- 3,879,000,000 (60%)
------1. East Asia (China, Japan, Indonesia, Vietnam, etc)- 1.978 billion (30.6%)
------2. Southern Asia (India, Bangladesh, etc.)- 1.59 billion (24.6%)
------3. Northern Asia (Russia, Uzbekistan, etc.)- 116 million (1.8%)
------4. Western Asia (Middle East: Iran, Georgia, Jordan, etc.)- 193 million (3%)
---B. Africa- 877,500,000 (13.5%)
---C. Europe- 727,000,000 (11%)
---D. North America- 501,500,000 (8%)
---E. South America- 379,500,000 (6%)
---F. Australia/Oceania- 32,000,000 (.5%)
---G. Antarctica- 0

Ib. HUMANS by WILLPOWER and how they react to seeing most monsters
---WP 1- Catatonic Fear- 10% (collapse, become useless)
---WP 2- Panic- 20% (run away blindly, even through windows 30 stories up)
---WP 3- Disbelief- 18% (assumes they've gone mad, attribute to ANYTHING else)
---WP 4- Berserk- 15% (must cause damage to something)
---WP 5- Terror- 13% (run away, but rationally, starting cars, opening doors, etc.)
---WP 6- Conciliatory- 10% (scared, but some rationale, willing to beg and plead)
---WP 7- Controlled Fear- 7% (scared, but outwardly calm. will act in best interests)
---WP 8- Curiosity- 5% (cautiously fascinated, but want to know more. DANGER!)
---WP 9- Bloodlust/Righteous Anger- 1.5% (wrath, aggression, antagonism, not fear)
---WP 10- No Reaction/Blase- 0.5% (absolutely no reaction, acts normally)

II. KINDRED- 43,000 (1:100,000 including kuei-jin... 1:50,000 excluding the Orient and Africa)
---A. Major Bloodlines
------1. Brujah – 5600 (13%)
------2. Malkavian – 3200 (7.5%)
------3. Nosferatu – 4700 (11%)
------4. Toreador – 4700 (11%)
------5. Tremere – 2600 (6%)
------6. Ventrue - 3200 (7.5%)
------7. Lasombra – 3000 (7%)
------8. Tzimisce - 1700 (4%)
------9. Assamite - 1300 (3%)
------10. Followers of Set – 1700 (4%)
------11. Gangrel – 3400 (8%)
------12. Giovanni – 900 (2%)
------13. Ravnos** (outside of India) – 900 (2%) /260-350 after Week of Nightmares
---B. Minor Bloodlines/Other – 900(2%)
------1. Ahrimanes, Baali, 2. Blood Brothers, 3. Cappadocians, 4. Children of Osiris, 5. City Gangrel, 6. Daughters of Cacophany, 7. Gargoyles, 8. Harbingers of Skulls, 9. Ishtarri, 10. Kiasyd, 11. Mariner Gangrel, 12. Nagaraja, 13. Salubri, 14. Samedi, 15. Tlacique
---C. Ebony Kingdom (Laibon)- 8,000ish (1 in 110,000 africans, avg. of Western to Eastern kindred ratios)
------1. Akunanse
------2. Followers of Set
------3. Guruhi
------4. Ishtarri
------5. Kinyonyi
------6. Naglopers
------7. Osebo
------8. Shango
------9. Xi Dundu
------10. Minor Legacies (Arcus' Malkavians, Mla Watu, Nkulu Zao)
---D. Caitiff - 5100 (12%), includes 14th, 15th, and dhampires
------11.Ghouls & Revenants- (2x kindred..?) 86,000

SECTS
---A. Camarilla- 47%
------1. Brujah- 20%
------2. Toreador- 19%
------3. Nosferatu- 17%
------4. Ventrue- 12.5%
------5. Gangrel- 10%
------6. Malkavian- 7%
------7. Tremere- 11%
------8. Caitiff- 3.5%
------9. Other- less than 1%
---B. Sabbat- 33%
------1. Lasombra- 25%
------2. Tzimisce- 15%
------3. Anti-Brujah- 9.5%
------4. Anti-Gangrel- 8%
------5. Anti-Malkavian- 7%
------6. Anti-Nosferatu- 7%
------7. Anti-Toreador- 5%
------8. Anti-Ventrue- 4%
------9. Panders- 9.5%
------10. Serpents- 2%
------11. Assamite- 2%
------12. Other- 6%
---C. Other- 20%

KINDRED AGE
---A. Antideluvians- 13 exactly, count 'em
---B. Methuselahs- less than 1%
---C. Elders- 9%
---D. Ancillae- 26%
---E. Neonates- 58%
---F. Fledglings- 6%

III. SHAPESHIFTERS- 47,500 fera total (Homid/Animal/Warform-born)
by tribe/breed
---A. Garou 13,000 Western Concordiat (or approx. 1 for 500,000 mortals) (67/25/8)
------1. Black Furies- 650(5%) (The Calyxes, Amazons of Diana, Bacchantes, Freebooters, Moon-Daughters, Order of Our Merciful Mother, The Sisterhood, Temple of Artemis)
------2. Bone Gnawers- 1600(12%) (Rat Finks, Frankweilers, The Hood, Deserters, Road Warders, Hillfolk, The Swarm, Man-Eaters)
------3. Children of Gaia-1300(10%) (Anointed Ones, Seekers of the Lost Tribes, The Patient Deed, The Imminent Strike, Servants of the Unicorn, Bringers of the Eternal Peace)
------4. Fianna- 1300(10%) (Songkeepers, Brotherhood of Herne, Whispering Rovers, Grandchildren of Fionn, Children of Dire, Tuatha de Fionn, Mother's Fundamentalists)
------5. Get of Fenris- 1300(10%) (Valkyria of Freya, The Hand of Tyr, Mjolnir's Thunder, Fangs of Garm, Glorious Fist of Wotan, Swords of Heimdall, Ymir's Sweat, Loki's Smile)
------6. Glass Walkers- 1300(10%) (Random Interrupts, Corporate Wolves, Wise Guys, Dies Ultimate, Cyber Dogs, City Farmers, Umbral Pilots, Urban Primitives, Mechanical Awakening)
------7. Red Talons- 300(2%) (Dying Cubs, Lodge of the Predator Kings, Warders of the Lands, Whelp's Compromise, Winter Packs)
------8. Shadow Lords- 1300(10%) (Bringers of Light, Children of Crow, Judges of Doom, Lords of the Summit, Children of Bat, Lazarite Movement, Masks, Society of Nidhogg)
------9. Silent Striders- 800(6%) (Seekers, Harbingers, Dispossessed, Wayfarers, Swords of the Night, Eaters of the Dead, The Bitter Hex)
------10. Silver Fangs- 1300(10%) (Houses: House Wyrmfoe, Clan Crescent Moon, Gleaming Eye, Austere Howl, Unbreakable Hearth, Blood-red Crest, Wise Heart) (Lodges: Lodge of the Sun, Lodge of the Moon) (Camps: Renewal, Royalist, Ivory Priesthood, Gray Raptors, Masters of the Seal)
------11. Uktena- 900(7%) (Earth Guides. Skywalkers, Bane Tenders, Children of Wyld, Web Walkers, Ghost Dancers, Scouts, Raiders, Path Dancers, Society of the Bitter Frost)
------12. Wendigo- 650(5%) (The Warpath, The Sacred Hoop, The Ghost Dance,
------13. Stargazers- 250(2%) (Ana-gamin, The Sacred Thread, The Zephyr, Trance Runners, Heavenly Successors of the Demon-Eater, Ouroboroans)
------14. Ronin- 150 (1%)
------15. Siberakh- when did this cross-breeding begin? we might extrapolate...
------16. Black Spiral Dancers- 3000-4000
------17. Hakken- 1300ish (not included in total garou percentage)

---B. Kinfolk- 195,000ish. 15 kinfolk per shifter.

---C. Changing Breeds (34,500)
------1. Ajaba- 60-70, 100 at most
------2. Ananasi- same as garou (11,700)
---------a. Kumo (separate from Ananasi)- 1600ish
------3. Bastet- 1,600-2,300 total
---------a. Bagheera- 500or many more (India & N. Africa, leopards are thriving)
---------b. Balam- 340-500 or far less (very few jaguars left)
---------c. Bubasti- 52 (Egypt)
---------d. Ceilican- prob'ly extinct
---------e. Khan- 20 or so (India, Bangladesh)
---------f. Khara- long extinct
---------g. Pumonca- 350-500
---------h. Qualmi- 70-100
---------i. Simba- 275-400
---------j. Swara- 140-200
---------k. Hellcats- 400ish (not included in Bastet total)
------4. Corax- 1,300
---------a. Carrion Crows -300ish (separate from Corax)
------5. Gurahl- 200ish (4 tribes)
------6. Kitsune- 1,300
------7. Mokole- 1,300 (4 Streams)
------8. Nagah- 650 (33.3/33.3/33.3)
------9. Nuwisha - 100 exactly and plenty more in the Umbra
------10. Ratkin- equal to Garou, maybe even double or more
------11. Rokea- 800
------12. Same-bito- 500ish (separate from Rokea)

IV. MAGES- 11,000ish (1 for 590,000 mortals) (There are two conflicting accounts. 1 in a million in a few older sources, and 1 in 150,000 mortals in Fallen Tower: Las Vegas. The first number doesn't leave enough mages for all their societies. The second, newer number incorporates all the sorcerers as well, which outnumber mages 3 to 1.)
by Willworking splat
---A. Traditionalists (32%)
------1. Akashic Brotherhood 15%
---------a. Shi-ren (Han Fei Tzu Academy, Kaizankai, Gam Lung)
---------b. Li-hai (Mohists, Blue Skins, Roda d'Oro)
---------c. Kannagara (Wandering Phoenix Robes, Jina, Shaolin, Karmachakra)
---------d. Jnani (Yamabushi, Chabnagpa, Wu Shan, Lin Shen)
---------e. Vajrapani (technically 36 clans, but: Tenshin Arashi Ryu, Banner of the Ebon Dragon, Sulsa)
---------f. Wu Lung (Dragon School, Phoenix School, Tiger School)
------2. Celestial Chorus 13.5%
---------a. Guardian Orders (Bros. of St. Christopher, Knights of St. George and the Dragon, Order of St. Michael, Poor Knights of Temple of Solomon, Sisters of Gabrielle)
---------b. Theological Orders (Monists, Septarians, Latitudinarians, Alexandrian Society, Anchorites, Children of Albi, Nashimites)
---------c. Infinite Diversity (Gnostics, Hare Krishnas, Hindus, Jains, Mithraites, Rastafarians, Sikhs, Sufis)
---------d. Other Factions (Bat Binah, Song of the Ancients)
------3. Cult of Ecstacy 11%
---------a. Historical Factions (K'an Lu, Fellowship of Pan, Erzuli Jingo, Vratyas)
---------b. Dissidents Against Andanda (Acharne, Aghoris, Hagalaz)
---------c. Progressivists (Joybringers, Dissonance Society, Klubwerks)
---------d. Political Factions (Children's Crusade, Cult of Acceptance, Silver Bridges)
------4. Dreamspeakers 10%
---------a. Baruti
---------b. Independents
---------c. Ghost Wheel Society
---------d. Keepers of the Sacred Flame
---------e. Red Spear Society (Fathers, Sons, Cousins)
---------f. Spirit Smiths- 84ish mages, 116 static shaman
---------g. Solitaires
------5. Euthanatos 6%
---------a. Chakravanti (Natatapas, Devasu, Lhaksmists)
---------b. Madzimbabwe (N'anga, Ta Kiti)
---------c. Hierochthonoi (Pomegranate Deme, Cabiri, Knights of Radamanthys)
---------d. Aided (Corriguinech, Filidh)
---------e. Vrati (Golden Chalice, Chakramuni, Albireo)
---------f. Other Destinies and Arts (Yggdrasil's Keepers, Pallotino, Yum Cimil)
------6. Order of Hermes 16%
---------a. House Bonisagus
---------b. House Ex Miscellanea
---------c. House Flambeau
---------d. House Fortunae
---------e. House Quaesitor
---------f. House Shaea
---------g. House Solificati
---------h. House Tytalus
---------i. House Verditus ("perhaps largest in the Order")
------7. Sons of Ether 8.5%
---------a. Ethernauts (Applied Propulsion Techs, Jack Parsons Mem. Society, Ethernaut Academy)
---------b. Cybernauts (Robotics Group, Difference Engine Group)
---------c. Utopians (Council for Enforcement of Scientific Ethics, Shadow Ministry, Noetic Engineers, Paradigma Committee)
---------d. Adventurers (Scroll of Destiny)
---------e. Dissidents (Manhattans)
---------f. Progressivists
------8. Verbena 10%
---------a. Gardeners of the Tree
---------b. Twisters of Fate (Neoprimitives)
---------c. Moon-Seekers (Techno-pagans, New Age, Fairy Folk)
---------d. Lifeweavers
------9. Virtual Adepts 10%
---------a. Cyberpunks
---------b. Cypherpunks
---------c. Chaoticians
---------d. Reality Coders
---------e. Nexplorers
---B. Technocrats (30.5%)
------1. Iteration X (22.5%)
---------a. BioMechanics, b. Macrotechnicians, c. Statisticians, d. Time-Motion Managers
------2. New World Order (27%)
---------a. The Ivory Tower, b. Operatives, c. Q Division, d. Watchers
------3. Progenitors (18%)
---------a. Genengineers, b. Damage Control, c. FACADE Engineers, d. Pharmocopoeists
------4. Syndicate (22.5%)
---------a. Disbursements, b. Enforcers, c. Financiers, d. Media Control, e. Special Projects Division
------5. Void Engineers (11%)
---------a. Border Corps Division, b. DSEATC, c. Earth Frontier Division (Ocean, jungle, polar, jungle, mountain, underground), d. Neutralization Specialist Corps, e. Pan-Dimensional Corps, f. Research & Execution
---C. Marauders (5%)
---D. Nephandi (12%)
------1. Aswadim- 7
---E. Crafts (7.5%)
------1. Taftani
------2. Ahl-i-batan
------3. Bata'a
------4. Go Kamisori Gama
------5. Hem-ka Sobk
------6. Kopa Loei
------7. Lions of Zion
------8. Sisters of Hippolyta
------9. Sons of Tengri
------10. Tai Hoi Li
------11. Wu Keng
------12. 5 Elemental Dragons
---F. Hollow Ones (Councilors or Revolutionaries) (3%)
------a. Elemental
------b. Pantheistic
------c. Incognitos
------d. Voudoun Gangstas
------e. Soundwave Masters
------f. Railroad Riders
------g. Social Terrorist Punk Cells
------h. Moles
------i. Outsiders (Gaunts, Mangers, Blood Bags)
---G. Orphans (10%)

by rank for non-technocratic
---Oracle ~9 in Umbra (.2%)
---Archmaster, 170, all in Umbra (1.5%)
---Master (Arete 5), 500, half in Umbra (4.5%)
---Adept (Arete 4), 2150, quarter in umbra (19%)
---Disciple (Arete 3), 5000, (44%)
---Initiate (Arete 2), 2250, (20%)
---Apprentice (Arete 1), 1200 (11%)

by rank for Technocracy
--Oracle: 5 in Umbra (.3%)
--Archmaster, 70, all in Umbra (2.2%)
--Master, 200 (6.5%)
--Adept, 400 (13%)
--Disciple, 620 (19.5%)
--Initiate, 820 (26%)
--Apprentice, 1000 (32.5%)

V. WRAITHS AND THE DEAD- (1.25 billion before #6)
---A. Risen- 500ish (1 for every 13 million living at any given moment?)
---B. Walking Dead (hidden, walkers, shamblers)- 1 for 15,000-20,000 mortals, or at least 20 per mage
---C. Ghosts-
------1. Spectres
------2. Kuei (MK spectres)
According to Hunter ST Handbook: unless there's a New Dijon-style storm, 50% of the supernatural population in a place should be restless dead: shamblers most common, followed by ghosts, then walkers/hidden. Not counting incredibly rare Risen)

VIa. CHANGELINGS- 1 region-based changeling-type creature for 20,000 mortals. 65,000-88,000 western-style kith (Europe, Americas, Australia). Likely even more (99,000ish) of oriental Hsien. Untold numbers of African and other asian changelings. Otterpooka's Master List of kiths.
---A. 16 kithain, gallain, and sub-kiths (Boggans, Clurichaun, Eshu, Ghille Dhu, Merfolk, Nockers, Oba, Piskies, Pooka, Redcaps, River Hags, Satyrs, Selkies, Sidhe, Sluagh, Trolls)
---B. 7 Dark-kin/Adhene/Denizens (Acheri, Aonides, Fir-bholg, Fuath, Keremet, Moirae, Naraka)
---C. 4 Menehune (Ali'i, Hana, Kahuna, Kokua)
---D. 8 Thallain (Aithu, Beasties, Boggarts, Bogies, Goblins, Murdhuacha, Ogres, Spriggan)
---E. 14 Nunnehi (Canotili, Inuas, Kachinas, May-may-gwya-shi, Nanehi, Numuzo'ho, Pu'Gwis, Rock Giants, Surems, Though Crafters, Tunghat, Water Babies, Yunwi Amai-yine-hi, Yunwi Tsundsi)
---F. 6 Inanimae (Glomes, Kuberas, Mannikins, Ondines, Parosemes, Solimonds)
---G. 10 Hsien (Chu-ih-yu, Chu Jung, Fu-Hsi, Hanumen, Heng Po, Hou-chi, Komuko, Nyan, Suijen, Tanuki)
---H. 6 Dauntain (Apostates, Black Magicians, The Cursed, The Lost, Nihilists, Typhoids)
---I. 5 Autumn Fae stereotypes (The Crashing Bore, The Minutia Maven, The Over-Protective Mother, The Restrictive Librarian, The Suit)

---#. Kinain- 1 fae-blooded for every 20 changelings

VIb. Hsien (99,000 if there's 1 for 20,000 folks like Changeling density)
---A. Kamuii/nobles
------1. Chu Jung (fire)
------2. Chu-ih-yu (metal)
------3. Hou Chi (wood)
------4. Komuko (earth)
------5. Suijen (water)
---B. Hirayanu- commoners
------1. Fu Hsi (wood)
------2. Nyan (fire)
------3. Tanuki (metal)
------4. Hanuman (earth)
------5. Heng Po (water)
---C. Kura Sau (corrupt, Yomi's servants)


VII. IMBUED - 4,000-8,000 (1 in 1,625,000 mortals to 812,000 mortals)
---Bystanders 450-900 (1 "active" bystander for every 9 Imbued)

VIII. DEMONS - 2,002,204 remaining after the war
--- A. Earthbound- 666 (1 for every 9,760,000 mortals)
------a. Thralls- 3,600+- 5 for each lesser Earthbound
------b. Cultists- 55ish for each lesser Earthbound
--- B. Fallen
--- If hell emptied out: 1 demon for 3200 mortals.
--- If half of hell (1,000,769) emptied out- 1 demon for 6500 mortals
--- If a third of hell (660,507) emptied out- 1 demon for 9800 mortals
--- If a quarter of hell (500,385) emptied out- 750,659: 1 demon for 13,000 mortals
--- If 3% of hell emptied out: 60,046- 1 demon for 108,000 mortals
--- If 2.5% of hell emptied out: 50,400- 1 demon for 129,000 mortals (suggested by LA's metro area population if only the 100 canon demons)
--- If 2% of hell emptied out: 40,030- 1 demon for 162,000 mortals
--- If 1% of hell emptied out: 20,015- 1 demon for 325,00mortals (what I recommend for a non-demoncentric game, if not even less)
------a. Thralls- 100,000ish, ~2 for each Fallen.
------b. Followers-30,000ish ~.6 for each Fallen

IX. KUEI-JIN- 21,000 (1 in 171,000 Eastern and Southern asians)
---A. Thrashing Dragons 20% (4200)
---B. Devil Tigers 17.5% (3675)
---C. Resplendant Cranes 16% (3360)
---D. Bone Flowers 16% (3360)
---E. Thousand Whispers 13% (2940)
---F. Other 17.5%(3675)
------1. Face of the Gods-- 5% (1000)
------2. Flame of the Rising Phoenix-- 1% (200)
------3. Spirit of the Living Earth--predominantly in India. 4% (800)
------4. Tempest of the Inward Focus-- 4% (900)
------5. Scorpion Eaters-- 2.5% (500)
------6. Akuma-- 1% (200), perhaps 50 Greater, 150 Lesser
---G. Dhampyrs- 300-500 (1 dhampyr for every 50 kuei-jin)
------a. Jin Hai- 3 or 4
------b. Makuro Hiko- 20 or so

X. MUMMIES
---A. Amenti- 700
------1.Ancient Undying: 13 Imkhu, perhaps 3 Cabiri, some Ishmaelites
---B. Teomallki- 400ish
---C. Wu T'ian- 200ish
---D. Bane Mummies- precisely 7
---E. Asekh-Sen-perhaps 850
------1. Wu Kuei- (150ish)
---F. Amkhat cultists (or regional equivalent)-2400 2 for each mummy at any given moment

XI. SEMI-AWAKENED and OTHER MORTAL SUPERNATURALISTS
(Those that wield mystic power-- 3x mages, around 33,000ish) or (1 for 191,700 mortals)
---A. Society of Leopold- 500ish
------1. Sisterhood of St. Claire
------2. Sons of Tertullian
---------a. Sect of St. James
------3. Brethren of Albertus
------4. Office of the Censor
--------a. Gladius Dei
--------b. Condotierri
------6. Order of St. Peter
------7. Sanbenito
------8. Order of St. Joan
------9. Children of Lazarus
------10. Fathers of the Good Death
------11. Order of St. Michael
---B. Arcanum- over 500
------1. Associates- 200
------2. Neophytes- 120
------3. Journeymen- 180
------4. Elder Brothers- 60
---C. Shih - 2600 (Middle Kingdom)
---D. Society of St. George (UK)
---E. Ikhwan al-Safa (Muslim countries)
---F. Akritai (Eastern Orthodox)
---G. Judges (Jewish)
---H. Twilight Agencies (from 1 or 2 to three dozen, plus mundane support personnel)
------1. Strike Force Zero (Japan)
------2. Special Affairs Division (USA's FBI)
------3. Domestic Intelligence Bureau (USA's NSA, compromised by supernats)
------4. Mossad (Israel, compromised)
---I. Mediums
------1. Benandantis
------2. Orphic Circle (from 300+ to just 22 survivors)
------3. Tranquility Inc.
------4. Paranormal Research Wing of Alternate Energy Group
---------a. Phantom Division
------5. Native American shamans
---J. Psychics
---K. Those with True Faith
---L. Theurgists
---M. Sorcerers/ Hedge Wizards
------1. Bata'i
------2. Star Council
------3. Asatru Hagalez
------4. Thal'hun
------5. Nephite Priesthood
------6. Fenian
------7. Pythian Order
------8. Balamob
------9. Uzoma
------10. Ancient Order of the Aeon Rights
------11. Children of Osiris
------12. Cult of Isis
------13. Cult of Mercury
------14. Maison Liban
------15. Nebuu-afef, Order of the Golden Fly
------16. Silver Portal
------17. Mogen Ha Chav
------18. The Seven Thunders

XIII. MISCELLANEOUS
---A. Regular Wolves- 120,000-200,000
------1. N. America- 10,000
------2. Europe- 11,000
------3. Russia- 30,000
------4. Asia- 68,500
---B. Posessed
------a. Fomori- 1 per shifter at any given moment, 47,000ish.
------b. Drones- 4,700ish. (1 for 10 fomori)
------c. Gorgons- 800ish
------d. Kami- 300ish
---Skin-Dancers
---Cheluroviah
---Ghost Bunyip and Innocents (shapeshifter ghosts that aren't really wraiths and aren't really spirits, either)
---Caged Folk
---Mage Constructs

* NOTE ON ASIA: Asia as a continent is a mess, culturally. It has the Chinese-like cultures (E. Asia), the Indian-like cultures (S. Asia), the Europe-like cultures (N. Asia), and what we know as the "Middle East" (W. Asia). I know its horrific to lump them together into only 4 categories, but we have to at some point for this project. In general, WoD's "Middle Kingdom" is going to apply to Eastern and Southern Asias combined, whereas North and West asia will tend to fall into the "Western" monster groups.

** There are conflicting claims about India's vampiric population. Some propose that the entire country is predominantly Ravnos, putting pre-Week of Nightmares populations into the tens of thousands, and kuei-jin at a minority. This conflicts with the fact there is an entire heretical dharma based out of India. I propose the Ravnos numbered around 6000, only slightly bigger than Brujah (instead of 2-4 times bigger) and only held a few key cities, and the rest of the country inhabited by some 4,600 kuei-jin.

This post has been edited by Arius: Mar 5 2007, 08:07 AM

Only 1200 BSD's world wide? That kinda lessens the horror..

THe BSDs are something I have little knowledge of. No other Garou tribe really exceeds that kind of number... but of course since the BSDs are sponsored by TEH WYRM, they could easily exceed that.... since they may not operate under the same restrictions the rest of the Garou do. On the other hand, garou don't have such tight ties with all the horrific banes and fomori and other Wyrmian nightmares.

What would you have guessed, Temple, if you knew that a single garou tribe is 1200ish in number, with some 13,000 werewolves worldwide? Suggestions are encouraged for all the numbers!

This post has been edited by Arius: Oct 12 2006, 09:28 AM

I don't know Werewolf nearly well enough to make any sort of meaningful answer to that I'm afraid..

Ha, I'm no great expert either, thus asking SnE's help. I always thought of the BSD as 'elites' in the Wyrm's army... banes and fomori the footsoldiers, with BSDs as the rarer foe that makes the protagonist pause in fear. And if you think of twelve hundred raving-mad, incestual, rapist psychopathic murderers with GLIDING BAT MEMBRANES that are somewhat ORGANIZED, you can still capture the horror.

Goddamn, W:tA can be a cool game. I'm still too afraid to touch the nWoD after spending bajillions on Exalted books... WHY MUST WHITE WOLF PRODUCE SUCH QUALITY?! It makes me ashamed of owning Rifts books. Which reminds me of an attempted Rifts-to-WoD-system-conversion nightmare a friend and I had which thankfully became aborted before seeing any kind of light of day... anyway...

Focus: Population

Lots of Errors. I have seen, and contributed, to many of these threads. Especially on the White-Wolf Forums. I'll mention a few but I am about to go to sleep.

Most of the Errors I noticed where in the Shifter numbers. I'll mention a few of the bigger ones.

For one Garou of the Western Concordiat have about 12000-20000. Bone Gnawers have 2000 (so they are by far the largest Gaian Tribe) and the Black Spirals have numbers ranging from 3000-4000+ with half being Metis.

The Nuwisha only have 100 on earth, they have larger numbers in the Umbra.

The Khan have around 100 left alive, about 50 non-Hengeyokai and 50 Hengeyokai.

The Changeling estimates I hear are from 100,000 to 200,000. Based off of the fact that multiple full courts are described and they seem to outnumber even the Vampires.

More Mages exist on account of the fact that they can live indefinatly. The 1 in 1 million numbers don't include the Oracles and Masters that where banished by the Avatar storm, only the newer ones.

I have heard Sorcerers are about 3 times as populous as mages as an estimate.

Waaay to many Imbued. Remember they usually only live for a few months, so they don't need a tremendous population because more are imbued to take their place.

Remember that many demons died in after the fall. So Thousands, and likely over a million but under 2 million, were slain in the Wars.

I am sure many more will contribute and add references.

Holy smokes, fantastic, Eldagusto. Your expertise is what I NEED. I'd definitely like references, as I imagine anyone else would in the future. I too am about to sleep, but will get working on changing the numbers to your justified speculations.

The only thing you mentioned that made me raise an eyebrow was the number of Imbued. Six thousand worldwide is way too many? Forty thousand is way too many? Yes, the Heralds are poised to Imbue new hunters if any others die, but surely there's an advantage to having hunters live awhile and get a bit of experience... they aren't THAT 'disposable' to the Messengers... are they?

As for Mages and Nuwisha in the umbra... let's let the main numbers be 'those who generally stay on the Prime Material Plane', and we'll mention bonus splats living in the realms beyond mortal senses.

Any insights on the more obscure splats, like Arcanum or Mummies?

The Arcanum is a single organization with, I think, seven chapterhouses. I wouldn't say they have more than a couple of thousand people affiliated with them, and that may be generous.

I got a question:



I'm pretty sure it is stated in one of the introductory texts for the corebook. I don't have my Mage texts on hand anymore, so its hard to double check for now. It seems like an offhanded kind of statement in the book, but its one of the ratios that I'm pretty certain about. 6000 mages used to be the pretty standard estimate for around 2000.

This collection of old Mage writings is one source, where the guy says that the notion of "1 in a million mages is common enough", but then, as is his perogative as ST, ups the numbers to suit himself. Make sure you're looking up "Mage Demographics", and be prepared to open the old message board file format.

VampireRpg has another list, and the 6000 pops out again.


Will get to Eldagusto's suggestions sometime today, I hope.

I think the 1 in a million thing for Mages is per generation. As Eldagusto noted, many of them have been around for 100+ years and won't die off any time soon, so you have to figure that there are probably seven to eight generations worth of Mages running around, obviously with far fewer in the first few generations, but you get the idea.

The number then, isn't that much higher, but maybe several hundred higher.

Don't forget Orphan numbers for mages... there's plenty of mages out there who Awakened on their own and don't have a particular Tradition (yet) that they belong to. Heck, some of them probably don't even know a) that they're mages, b) that there's other mages out there. And sorcerers, definitely a bunch of them running around.

The mage numbers could probably be higher, too... If you figure 33% of 6500, that leaves you with about 2100 Traditionalists. Divide that by 10 (remember the Hollow Ones!), and you have 200 average for each Tradition, probably less for some. That's hardly enough to make a cohesive Tradition, let alone support numerous chantries and Nodes across the world. I'd say double it, and it's probably a closer approximation... yea, there's not many mages, but there's enough to make a difference. And then you have those popular little Technocrats and a bunch of Crafts to deal with...

Nifty work thus far, though. If you need help/ideas for actual distribution of these populations...

~~ AlecRavager
"Hey, there goes Edna with a saxophone!"

Are there really only 6.5 billion humans? I thought it was closer to 10 billion now.




Hakken and Black Spiral Dancers should be listed under Garou, not Changing-Breeds.

I would avoid breaking the Kitsune and Ratkin populations into Paths and Plagues. Paths are just auspices, not tribes. And most Ratkin do not belong to a Plague.

On the other hand, breaking up Mokole into the 4 Streams would make their numbers easier to estimate.

For the Corax, do not forget the existence of Carrion Crows.
For Bastet, do not forget the Hellcats.
For Garou, do not forget the Siberakh and Ronin.

For Nuwisha, only 100 live on the physical plane, but there are many more in the Umbra and they count too.


The mummy types that I know of are:
Amenti, Teomallki, Wu T'ian, Bane Mummies, and Asekh-Sen

And finally, there's a ton of miscelaneous that got left out:

Ghouls and Revenants -- and maybe include Chatterlings as well?
Skin-Dancers
Hsien (they are NOT changelings)
Walking Dead
Cheluroviah
Posessed (Fomori, Drones, Kami, and Gorgons)
Shih and Goblin Slayers
Vhujunka
Inanimae, Adhene, and Merfolk (changelings)
Kinfolk and Kinain
Bystanders
Ghost Bunyip and Innocents (shapeshifter ghosts that aren't really wraiths and aren't really spirits, either)
Dhampyr and Dhampires
Caged Folk
cyborgs such as HIT Marks
these freaky were-dog things created by DNA genetic engineers, in Book of the Weaver
Mediums

This post has been edited by Erinye: Oct 12 2006, 08:48 PM

On the Garou -

I think its speculated that the Garou outnumber the BSDs 10 to 1. I forget exactly where, I'll try to get you some info.

There are going to be more Garou in Europe than Asia - Europe is home to 4 Garou tribes, Asia to 2 (I'm not counting Russia as being in either).

Also, you're being a little static with your numbers. No way there's as many Wendigo as Bone Gnawers for example.

Also, there's around a 100 Garou at least in the Amazon, and a few in Africa these days...

edit: http://www.shadownessence.com/forum/index....c=5919&st=0 - this link might help you a little V:tM wise. There's plenty of such threads around in various forms at a guess, worth having a gander.

This post has been edited by etu: Oct 12 2006, 08:57 PM

Wow! Dang! Okay, lots of input and interest. Seems Shadownessence is really far better the place for this kind of investigation.



I realize the numbers are very static at this point. There are more Bone Gnawers than any other tribe, of course... but to tweak numbers in the rest of the 'large' tribes is something that would have to be rather arbitrary, so I am loathe to do it without input. Suggest some numbers that should be changed.

I'm sure there are splats that are basically indigenous to one area, but can certainly drift to unorthodox places. I'd like to avoid the small scattering of international splats if numbers aren't significant. That's the sort of detail work left up to an ST.

And thanks for the Sabbat demographics link... the vampire count probably should have an overall breakdown of bloodlines and then a breakdown of Camarilla/Sabbat organization breakdowns. Still debating how to organize that. If anyone comes up with a good list, I'll certainly paste it in.

Enriye, your Misc. list is awesome. Added! Thanks! I threw the dead under Wraith, cuz that's pretty much them, right?

AlecRavager, i was always suspicious of "1 in a million" because many of the sub-categories of the Traditions, for instace, would be more like "clubs" than anything. I think I worked it once (in my lost notes * )out that each sub-group in the Euthanatos had like 2 Masters or something. Perhaps the best approach would be determine what percentage of the "total" willworkers there are, like a pie chart, thus allowing scaleability.

Eldagusta, I have asked about what a good guess for Hunters are. Also, I was under the impression that a full third of the heavenly host were imprisoned, and there wasn't much death. Otherwise, thanks for your numerical insights, I've already made some changes.

Dang, still lots of work to do. Its awful that I'm not focusing more on my responsibilities. I'm gonna go work on some of that iRL garbage.

Mage Ranks:

Oracle ~12? *In umbra*
Archmaster *In umbra*
Master (Arete 5) *~50% in umbra*
Adept (Arete 4) *~25% in umbra*
Disciple (Arete 3)
Initiate (Arete 2)
Apprentice (Arete 1)

Well, the Amazon's pretty small in terms of numbers (but large in import) - that said, there's other Garou in South America according to Rage across the World. In fact, Rage across the World would be a pretty handy book for this sort of task, I'll have a look for you. And the Garou in Africa are a pretty handy chunk - there's quite a few of them running around in Egypt and a few in the rest of Africa.

As for a list of roughly which tribe should have which population -

Biggest - Bone Gnawers - Well, everyone says they're the biggest.

Still pretty damn big - Children of Gaia, Fianna, Get, Fangs and Shadow Lords.

All of these tribes are world wide, have large kin networks and fairly few recruiting hang-ups. The exception to that is the Fangs, but being so highly bred makes up for it as the chances of true children shoots through the roof (probably means less kin).

Smaller but not small - Uktena, Striders and Glass Walkers

They're all fairly well spread - the Uktena the least so, but then they've got the healthiest kin situation.

Getting poky - Black Furies and Wendigo

Black Furies are world spread with good kin, but effectively shut out somewhere near but short of 50% of their natural recruits. Now they do a lot of adopting, but even thats not going to balance out entirely. The Wendigo are territorially restricted and picky about kinfolk.

Bloody tiny - Talons, Stargazers and Hakken

The Talons suffer from extremely limited recruiting policies and rapidly falling kinfolk. The Stargazers were never that big anyway. Hakken are territorially limited with poor numbers of wolf kinfolk.

Haven't included the Ronin - because I'm stumped - or the Siberakh, who I can't remember that much about and I suspect are a tiny amount.

This hasn't been brilliantly researched or thought through but these are beginning ideas that others can look at. If you can get your hands on a copy of Rage across the World (or any of the other Rages), do so - they tend to have quite a bit of numbers and/or habitats.

I really like your breakdown. What if I did this: assign a number of points to each tribe in accordance with their size, and then added them all up.

5- Bone Gnawers
4- Children, Get, Fangs, Fianna, Lords
3- Uktena, Glasswalkers, Striders
2- Black Furies, Wendigo
1- Talons, Stargazers, Hakken

TOTAL points= 41 points

We set that 41 ratio to 100, which gives each our "points" the equivalent of 2.4 percent of the Garou population. Thus, Talons make up 2.4% of the werewolves, and the Bone Gnawers make up 12%. If we apply it to my favorite Werewolf estimate of 13,000, then that's like 300 Talons and 1600 Bone Gnawers. Since I've heard 2000 Bone Gnawers again and again, we can slide the scale up... giving us 400 Talons and a grand total of some 16,667 garou, demonically enough. See what I'm doing? It's not too out of line with the numbers I've gathered eaerlier, either.

5- Bone Gnawers- 2000
4- Children, Get, Fangs, Fianna, Lords- 1600ish each
3- Uktena, Glasswalkers, Striders- 1200ish each
2- Black Furies, Wendigo- 800ish each
1- Talons, Stargazers, Hakken- 400ish each

Well? Well? Can I get a yay or nay on this? Is this not the most LOGICAL BREAKDOWN YOU'VE EVER SEEN? I couldn't have done it without Etu's insight!

* * * * * *

After scouring the web, I have found two percentage breakdown proposals for Mage:

Paul Strack says:
Traditions- 47%
Technocracy- 23.5%
Nephandi- 12%
Marauders- 6%
Crafts- 12%

And then another source:
33% Tradition Mages, 26% Technocrat Mages, and 41% "other" Mages

Not too helpful... however, they did each have background on mage rank breakdown. I averaged the two and got something that looks decent.

average (based on 6500 mages)
Oracle 0.20% - 13
Archmaster 2% - 130
Master 5.8% - 377
Adepts 22% - 1430
Disciples 40% - 2600
Initiates 20% - 1300
Apprentices 10% - 650




This post has been edited by Arius: Oct 13 2006, 01:42 AM

You also might like to have a look at this thread on vampire populations.

The Red Talons also have serious fertility problems. Fewer are born to their tribe than any other.


I think the Ajaba and Rokea are overestimated. There were never explicit numbers for how many Ajaba survived the massacre, it was generally left up to the individual STs, but 24 is the general estimate I've heard. Since 1984 then at least one generation of Ajaba has Changed, and the Hyenid breed have become more numerous. Ajaba are also more fertile than most Changing-Breeds. But 250 still seems too high to me.

Rokea...another race that was recently massacred in rediculous numbers. In 1955 they lost 60% of the population (according to the Breedbook), and due to their slow breeding and internecine wars, numbers haven't increased as much as they could have. I think 2,500 is too many Rokea.


By the way, my list of miscelaneous is pretty much just a list. I don't know how many of any particular random thingy there are, I just know that those things exist out there.

For the Ajaba... you're right, it might be too many. I found a statistic that an african woman averages 5.7 child births... AJaba have a 30% success rate on breeding true. I dunno what hyena rates are, googling just talks about how females have psuedo-penises... but if each of those 24 survivors got cracking on makin' kids, but now we'd only have around 40 more. Does a nice number of 60-70 sound good?

Keep in mind for Rokea that there is a LOT of ocean... i dunno much about their dispersal rates, but there's a lot of water for the weresharks to get lost in. Think of how many fera are crammed into the continents. In that respect, is 2500 still too many? Would 1600 be more in line? or less?

And, a horrifying question: kinfolk. OMG, how many kinfolk are there? Were any ratios ever given? Surely not EVERY HUMAN BEAN with shapeshifter blood is outright kinfolk...?